Who Goes Deeper? Satellite Or Terrestrial Radio?

Most broadcasters have heard the (perhaps apocryphal) story about Todd Storz and the birth of Top 40: the Omaha bar patrons who played the same songs on the jukebox repeatedly, and the waitresses who played them again after the customers had left. Here’s how that story plays out in 2007:

You have undoubtedly noticed businesses in your town that have switched to satellite radio for their in-store music, either from terrestrial radio or, as likely, from Muzak and similar services. In my suburb, it’s the gym (XM) and a local restaurant/pub (Sirius) where I most often encounter satellite radio.

I’ve contended in these pages for a while that Sirius and XM have gotten more hit-driven and more mainstream over the years. But with more opportunities to hear them at greater length recently, I have still been surprised just how how hit-driven they were.

Because it was one of the Sirius Classic Rock channels that prompted this observation, I decided to monitor both Sirius Classic Vinyl (’60s and ’70s) and Classic Rewind (’70s and ’80s) and their counterpart channels on XM: Top Tracks 46 and Big Tracks 49. The idea was to measure their depth vs. what you might hear on a commercial Classic Rocker, in this case New York’s WAXQ (Q104.3).

I chose Q104.3 because it’s a little unusual by Classic Rock standards. Being in New York, it has always had more of a Billy Joel/Elton John lean. It has also heavily publicized its variety in the last few years–particularly when WCBS-FM was doing the Jack-FM format against it.

My benchmark was Mediabase’s Top 1,000 most played Classic Rock songs of the week. Not every song on that list is a record that you can reliably expect to perform well in research for a Classic Rock station, but it’s a pretty good dividing line between a song that still tests playable for some stations and one that would show up mostly in special programming. Not every song that makes the Top 1,000 is “Sweet Home Alabama” or “More Than A Feeling,” but those songs are usually “safe” programming to some extent.

Even outside the Top 1,000, one encounters a lot of songs that have slowly dropped off the radio because they don’t research well but don’t seem obscure. (“Tonight, Tonight, Tonight” by Genesis, which we’ll encounter later, is a good example.) A Classic Rock station that was loaded up with those songs would still be taking a chance from a programming standpoint, but it might not have a very high “oh wow” factor for listeners.

That said, I once heard somebody express amazement at hearing “Rikki, Don’t Lose That Number,” hardly a song that I considered obscure. So “oh wow” is very much in the ear of the beholder.

We’ll start with Sirius’ older-leaning Classic Vinyl from 11:15-12:05 p.m. Songs that do not make Mediabase’s Classic Rock Top 1000 are asterisked:

  • *Faces, “Memphis” – A true rarity. No commercial airplay anywhere this week;
  • David Bowie, “Suffragette City” – Second tier in terms of Bowie’s airplay at the format, but still in top 1000;
  • Eagles, “Peaceful Easy Feeling”;
  • Grateful Dead, “Truckin'” – Rarely tests, but within the Top 1,000 here, usually because PDs feel the need to have one token Dead song;
  • CSNY, “Ohio” – The act’s hardest rocking and most played song at the format;
  • Three Dog Night, “Mama Told Me (Not To Come) – This act is usually on the other side of the Classic Rock/Oldies divide, but as a party song–in multiple senses of the word–this is the one that makes the cut;
  • *The Who, “The Seeker” – Another true depth cut;
  • Lou Reed, “Walk On The Wild Side”;
  • Rolling Stones, “Tumbling Dice”;
  • *Cream, “SWLABR”;
  • Led Zeppelin, “Kashmir”;
  • Badfinger, “Day After Day”;
  • *Bob Dylan, “Positively 4th Street” – Dylan is usually represented at Classic Rock by 2-3 songs, of which this isn’t one, regardless of where it is in the Canon for Dylan fans;
  • Kinks, “Lola” – The Kinks’ most enduring at the format; a classic, but also one that perhaps got some durability by becoming a Rock hit again in 1980 via a live version.

Here’s Sirius Classic Rewind (the “newer” of the two) from the same time frame:

  • Queen, “We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions” – Along with “Old Time Rock & Roll,” probably the best example of a song that remains strong, but massively burnt;
  • *Genesis, “Tonight, Tonight, Tonight” – A good example of a record that was hardly obscure at the time, but rarely gets played now, particularly this long version;
  • Guns ‘N’ Roses, “Sweet Child O’ Mine”
  • Peter Gabriel, “Sledgehammer”
  • John Cougar Mellencamp, “Jack And Diane” – Like Queen, very safe, increasingly burnt, and now shared with even Mainstream AC;
  • *George Thorogood, “No Particular Place To Go” – Have never heard this on the radio as an oldie (and been a while since I heard the Chuck Berry original anywhere);
  • Bob Seger, “Against The Wind”
  • REO Speedwagon, “Take It On The Run” — There’s an odd unwritten rule in Classic Rock radio that this one still rocks, but somehow “Keep On Loving You” is too wimpy to even test;
  • Van Halen, “And The Cradle Will Rock”–Not first tier VH, but well represented;
  • Police, “Spirits In The Material World” – Again, secondary (or tertiary) Police, but still represented at Classic Rock;
  • Foreigner, “Feels Like The First Time”
  • Bruce Springsteen, “Dancing In The Dark” – These days, Springsteen does better in the Northeast than elsewhere. As such, you don’t hear a ton of depth at Classic Rock radio.

Then I switched between XM’s Top Tracks (early Classic Rock) and Big Tracks (newer) between 12:05-12:55 p.m. Here’s Top Tracks:

  • Jimi Hendrix Experience, “Fire”;
  • Allman Brothers, “Whipping Post”–Towards the bottom of the Top 1,000, but in there;
  • Boston, “More Than A Feeling” – A safe universal record, even at AC these days;
  • Bob Seger, “Mainstreet”;
  • Pink Floyd, “Speak To Me/Breathe”;
  • Procol Harem, “A Whiter Shade Of Pale”;
  • Eric Clapton, “Cocaine”–Clapton’s most enduring at the format, even in weeks when his autobiography isn’t being published;
  • *Beatles, “Hey Bulldog”–On the”Yellow Submarine” soundtrack; not usually a radio staple;
  • Kinks, “All Day & All Of The Night”;
  • *Graham Nash, “Chicago-We Can Change The World” – A one time trademark record for the format, but not for the last 30 years or so;
  • Chicago, “Saturday In The Park”;
  • Rolling Stones, “Start Me Up”;
  • Steppenwolf, “Magic Carpet Ride” – One of the most enduring songs of its era.

And here’s XM Big Tracks:

  • Def Leppard, “Photograph”;
  • *Joe Walsh, “A Life Of Illusion” – I’ve heard it a little more in recent years because of the Jack- and Bob-FMs, as well as its placement in “The 40 Year Old Virgin.” A great-sounding programmer’s favorite but is usually found at the bottom of most music tests;
  • Whitesnake, “Here I Go Again”–Reliable at Classic Rock and Hot AC these days;
  • Rush, “Freewill” – Second tier Rush, but not unplayed;
  • Tom Petty, “You Wreck Me” – A rare instance of a post-Nirvana hit from a heritage rock artist that endures;
  • *Glass Tiger, “Don’t Forget Me (When I’m Gone)” – A big hit at the time, but long ceded by Rock radio to Hot AC and Jack-FM;
  • *Eurythmics, “Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This) – Again, for most, this hasn’t been a Rock record for 24 years, but it’s hardly obscure;
  • J. Geils Band, “Centerfold”;
  • Cars, “My Best Friend’s Girl”;
  • Van Halen, “Why Can’t This Be Love” – Third tier VH, but the biggest of the Sammy-era;
  • Pat Benatar, “Heartbreaker” – Her most enduring song at Classic Rock (her other harder rocking songs have disappeared);
  • Police, “Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic”
  • *Loverboy, “When It’s Over” – Loverboy actually places three songs in the top 1,000, not just “Working For The Weekend.” But this isn’t one of them;
  • Bob Seger, “Night Moves”

Finally, here’s WAXQ (Q104.3) New York between 1-2 p.m.:

  • Dire Straits, “Money For Nothing”;
  • Chicago, “25 Or 6 To 4”–Chicago’s most rockin’ early hit and thus its biggest at Classic Rock;
  • Van Halen, “Jump”;
  • Elton John, “Don’t Let The Sun Go Down On Me”–not everybody goes this far into ballad Elton, but it is among the Top 1,000;
  • Pink Floyd, “Another Brick In The Wall, Pt. II”;
  • * Bob Marley & Wailers, “Get Up, Stand Up”–The one true surprise this hour. Marley tests in a variety of formats and probably did test for Q104.3. But many Classic Rock stations won’t even test him. (Alternative stations think of him as less of a stretch.);
  • AC/DC, “Hell’s Bells”–Second tier AC/DC, but I’m hearing it more lately;
  • U2, “New Year’s Day”–Their third most played song at Classic Rock–a good example of a song that some Rock stations resisted when it was new that became a staple;
  • Lynyrd Skynyrd, “What’s Your Name”;
  • Guess Who, “No Time”–Again, most Classic Rockers don’t go beyond “No Sugar Tonight/New Mother Nature” and “American Woman” because of texture, but this does make the Top 1.000;
  • Pete Townshend, “Let My Love Open The Door”–Like many Who songs, probably bigger in NYC than elsewhere; third tier at the format;
  • Rolling Stones, “Brown Sugar”–We rap up with one of the format’s signature songs.

Q104.3 was, despite its quirks, the most hit-driven of the stations I listened to (although, to be fair, if I had continued into the next hour, the first two songs would have been “Tomorrow Never Knows” by the Beatles and “Bat Out Of Hell” by Meat Loaf). That said, the satellite services were a lot less eccentric than their reputation. The most aggressive among the Sirius and XM channels had four “oh wows” per hour–meaning that even in satellite radio, somebody is thinking about giving the listener that well-balanced quarter-hour that is such a tenet of terrestrial programming.

Interestingly, on either channel of either service, the songs that most deviated from the Classic Rock norm tended to be either deeper ’60s or deeper ’80s cuts. The ’70s are, after all, the center of the format for most Classic Rockers and where there’s likely to be more consensus. The only service that ever went for more than a song or two between smashes was XM’s Big Tracks, which actually went for four songs (between Rush and the Eurythmics) without anything on the “Carry On Wayward Son” level. (“Sweet Dreams” does have that level of ubiquity–just not at Classic Rock.)

Anecdotally, my sense of Sirius and XM was already that their library-based were relying more on “music that tests,” or at least “music that you would hear on a mainstream commercial station in the same format.” The exceptions were the stations that were either designated for deep cuts, or for genres where there aren’t already mainstream commercial stations to establish what the hits are, e.g., reggae or chillout music.

Okay, you may have noticed so far that there has been no mention of XM’s Deep Tracks 40 or its Sirius Counterpart, the Vault. To be fair, those two channels are also designed to be truly deep and are. I listened to those stations alongside the four whose monitors appear above and neither played any song in the Top 1,000. The Vault went from Peter Frampton’s version of “Jumpin’ Jack Flash” into the Kinks’ “Milk Cow Blues.” Deep Tracks did a Springsteen “then-and-now” where the “then” song was “War” and the “now” was not “Radio Nowhere,” but another cut from the new album. And Q104.3, by the way, has a Deep Cuts channel as its HD-2 offering.

And here’s where my version of the jukebox epiphany comes in:

In all of my recent exposure to XM and Sirius, I’ve come across the two Mainstream Classic Rock channels a lot. I’ve also heard XM’s Modern AC Flight 26 and various Alternative channels in public, or heard about them from co-workers. I’ve also recently come across XM’s relatively wide pre-Beatles Oldies channel on in public. But I’ve never heard either of the deep cuts channels playing anywhere. They flesh out the slate of available offerings, and bolster the variety image. But on their mainstream channels, Sirius and XM mostly play the hits. And even Sirius and XM customers choose the hits.

Terrestrial broadcasters should not, in any way, be smug about that. In certain ways, it’s more disconcerting that somebody would pay money to hear a lot of the same music they can hear on mainstream radio. Broadcasters have responded to the advent of satellite and the rise of the iPod by taking more calculated musical risks, but if the calling card isn’t depth and variety, but instead commercial free music and, perhaps, knowing that the deep cuts or reggae channel is there when you want it, that’s something else altogether.

And Satellite broadcasters have known for a while that depth and variety would not be the only calling cards–that’s why they began signing up Howard Stern, Oprah Winfrey, and sports. If none of those things have put either satellite service into pre-merger profitability, they’ve still siphoned off listening that terrestrial radio would rather have. For terrestrial broadcasters, the first line of defense would be to understand what motivates those listeners who do make the move to satellite. But at a time when not every broadcaster can ask enough questions about their own product, that question is likely to go unanswered unless satellite goes through another growth spurt.

20 replies
  1. CBII
    CBII says:

    Its a shame more Chuck Berry (Originals) are not played on the airwaves. He has a fairly large cataloge of songs (278). On the rare occasion something is played, its Johnny B. Goode, Maybelene or Sweet Little Sixteen. What ever happened to Blues with a Feeling. Jaguar and the Thunderbird and Rockit?
    Seems like Satellite based radio is about the same when it comes to playlists. Here in St. Louis, theres a station KDHX and they are the REAL DEAL! No regular play lists just whatever the DJ feels like playing. Now thats REAL radio at it’s best.

  2. Lee Zapis
    Lee Zapis says:

    I’ve noticed the same thing when listening to Sirius channel 60, Today’s New Country. They seem to be working off of a very tight list. So much so that I find myself channel surfing or should I say input surfing, going from Sirius to my iPod to terrestrial radio.

  3. Bill Cloutier
    Bill Cloutier says:

    I recently bought a BMW and get Sirius for free so I have spent much time listening. You’re right, Sean, their channels sound very much like terrestrial radio (including inane commentary by mediocre DJs), which is a good reason to cancel the subscription and continue to listen to free over the air radio.

  4. Greg Gillispie
    Greg Gillispie says:

    Consulting radio stations for 20 years and working with XM for the past year, it is obvious why you hear what you do from each media.
    When it comes to research, most terrestrial stations will go with the top xx amount testers and that’s it. “What you don’t play won’t hurt you.” Additionally, many believe TSL is of the nature the station should always play the best songs to capture and keep listeners.
    Unfortunately, there are stations – and one large market station is scary – that won’t stay tied in with topics of interest. A major day-in-history event, big artist b’day, etc. go without a short feature or in some cases even a brief word.
    XM – can’t talk for Sirius – has its two “classic rock” channels rather defined, although as you noted, plays some deeper songs. That is because XM has a stream of attached “formats.” Top Tracks merges into Deep Tracks. One has the hits of the era, the other the album cuts.
    Properly displayed and positioned, terrestrial radio should use deeper tracks. Doing so can certainly create talk…and hopefully we all know what WOM can do!
    PS: Even my 15 year old daughter ocassionally sings, “They’re so light and fluffy white we’ll make a fortune out tonight; they’re so light and fluffy brown they’re the finest in the town.” Do you know which artist and album that comes from?

  5. JJ Duling
    JJ Duling says:

    CBII- here’s the challenge. Those few Chuck Berry songs (using him as the example)get played the most because those are listener favorites. This “why play the same 5-6 songs by XXX artist, he has hundreds to choose from” means nothing if THE LISTENERS don’t want to hear obscure, unfamiliar (and ultimately uncomfortable) stuff. His other titles you mention you’d like to hear? I’ve been in radio most of my life and I’ve never heard any of them.
    While I don’t subscribe to the “play only the 250-300 cream of the crop songs” mindset, this high radio hacks & geeks get from dreaming about 4000 song playlists is silly.
    The most successful stations understand their listeners’ expectations (not by guessing or impressing their tastes on them), then fulfill them. “Real radio” has never been about some jock playing whatever they feel like and to heck with the audience.
    It is possible to play the hits AND provide the occasional “WOW!” song to keep it fresh and Programmers who aren’t boxed in by typical radio definitions do just that every day.

  6. Steve Allan
    Steve Allan says:

    What is the surprise here? That listeners gravitate towards songs they know or that the ‘reinvention’ of radio is still based in delivering what people really want?
    As a long time programmer in library based formats I was always struck by the notion of arbitrary play list numbers. Having done oldies music testing for years I can tell you that there are many more songs that can (and should) be played than currently are.
    Consider this – the audience of the average library format station will likely be 100% familiar with every song you present them (ok, except for those truly obscure Chuck Berry songs listed above). So, with familiarity not an issue we can focus on passion.
    This is where the research gets fuzzy. In any typical test of 700 you can safely assume there are about 150 at the top that are home runs and 150 or so at the bottom that are truly disliked (why Nothing But a Heartache by the Flirtations never tests is beyond me).
    So, what do we do with the remaining 400 songs? We pick an arbitrary point – say 62 – that is the cutoff. Above is playable, below is not.
    Huh? So, the song that tested at 62.11 is more ‘popular’ than the one that tested at 61.78? With 100 people…
    No song is ever universally loved (have you ever seen a perfect test score?) In the library format game ‘going deep’ really means playing more hits.
    Unfortunately, no one wants to take a chance with a tertiary category so we all end up hearing the usual suspects.

  7. Brian Wright McLeod
    Brian Wright McLeod says:

    Hi Sean:
    I find myself in a unique situation as a broadcaster in both satellite and terrestrial radio. I host two Native programs with Electric Powwow on Sirius (Iceberg 95) which is a music format where I present both contemporary and powwow sounds — the only Native program on Sirius. The same freedom exists for me on Renegade Radio (CKLN 88.1 FM), where I present an open format talk and music program that breaks all barriers and boundaries. It’s unusual in that most people believe that such freedom for unbridled patter exists only on satellite and not on the FM airwaves. Guess what?
    Although “hits” is a relative term in the genre of Native music unless one relies on the usual standards released by Redbone, Buffy Sainte-Marie and Robbie Robertson, which I do not, the freedom of broadcasting seems to be what I make it, hence the moniker Renegade.
    For the topic at hand, I think it all depends on the channel and the host for each show on satellite radio. I have never listened to XM and barely pay any attention to terrestrial radio anymore now that I have Sirius hooked up at home. With the variety of channels, there are many instances of catching some great and rare music never programmed on terrestrial stations.

  8. Brian Douglas
    Brian Douglas says:

    As pointed out here, people aren’t really interested in much depth. Of course, that doesn’t mean they want something predictable and boring, either. Bill Tanner used to talk about predictable unpredictability. If radio is exciting, fun and involved, we won’t be sweating satellite, that’s for sure. We all get to take some blame for making radio sound like it

  9. Dave Anthony
    Dave Anthony says:

    I’ll put my tight listed station up against a station playing 1000 (or more) songs any day of the week. Trying to change the basic human desire of wanting to hear songs they like is a task I always hoped my competitors would accept. Go ahead and play five favorites an hour. I’ll play ten.

    JON BRUCE says:

    Never thought about playing those obscure Chuck Berry tunes. “Nadine”, “Carole”, and “C’est La Vie” (Gaining traction from “Pulp Fiction”) are a few tho that pop up in “street-tests” in addition to the “workhorse” songs by him most often aired. “No Particular Place To Go” was in high rotation for decades at KDES-FM Palm Springs, Ca.

  11. John McNary
    John McNary says:

    What a biased, self-serving piece of tripe this is.
    I don’t listen to Sirius, but I am familiar with XM.
    The terrestial radio industry apologist who wrote this “analysis” PICKED THE WRONG XM STATIONS.
    “Top Tracks” channel 46 is not the in-depth album channel. That would be “Deep Tracks” channel 40.
    I don’t expect ANY set of terrestial stations in any market to match the depth of satellite radio.
    Edison Media Research has done its “research” badly. or is it just supplying what the paying customers want to hear?
    What hogwash.

  12. Jim Stewart
    Jim Stewart says:

    >> it’s more disconcerting that somebody would pay money to hear a lot of the same music they can hear on mainstream radio.

  13. Kenny
    Kenny says:

    I wouldnt go without XM or Sirius I have it in all my cars and my truck at work Sirius gold has Norm n Nite and XM has wolfman jack NO BAY AREA RADIO STATION has oldies KFRC is top heavy with commercials !!! Im very happy with my SATS
    4 XMs
    3 Sirius,,,,,,,And we have Phlash phelps on the 60s channel great guy!!!

  14. Erik from Atlanta
    Erik from Atlanta says:

    I suggest Hair Nation & Buzzsaw on Sirius if one wants to hear even more classic rock with heavy metal/hard rock flavor. Lithium on Sirius is channel to hear some forgotten alterntative & grunge songs from 1990s.

  15. Jeff Gerstl
    Jeff Gerstl says:

    To John McNary who wrote an earlier post, he did not read carefully. Sean addressed the Deep Tracks channel in this column. However using that as a comparison against terrestrial FM would be unfair unless he was comparing it to one of the “Deeper Cuts” HD-type channels, which he wasn’t.
    I usually do my morning workout between 8 and 10 AM here in (fiery) San Diego, and I listen to a variety of music channels during the workout. What is strange is that out of the 60 or so music channels Sean mentioned, I happened to be listening to Big Tracks – XM 49 at exactly the time of his sample.
    I started listening at “You Wreck Me’ and was home during “When It’s Over.” Some observations: I am in my late 30s which means that the Big Tracks channel is more “my” Classic Rock. I remember feeling that “Sweet Dreams” did seem out of place (in a way) on Classic Rock but not altogether unheard of. It would be more Classic Hits, Hot AC, or Classic Alternative before Rock, but rockers in that era would have still given it a chance. And I was also surprised by the Glass Tiger song. I never considered Glass Tiger as more rock than pop, but it DID have Bryan Adams doing some vocals. Maybe XM should change the Big Tracks format to Classic Hits. Many of these songs could be considered part of that format, save for Rush or maybe Joe Walsh. I guess it’s all in the interpretation, but when describe a station as Classic ROCK, I expect more guitar driven, 80s AOR-type music. When you describe it as Classic HITS, I see mostly uptempo mainstream rock with selected pop hits mixed in.

  16. oldnumber7
    oldnumber7 says:

    I don’t think I’m very different from many Sirius users and what I’ve learned in three years as a subscriber is that I use Sirius very differently than I used old radio. Before Sirius, I had two or three stations that were my favorites. On Sirius, I have a couple of dozen to fit whatever mood I’m in. I may go to Classic Vinyl often, because it is the music I grew up with but I can switch anytime I’m bored to the Vault, the Spectrum, the Blues Channel, Outlaw Country or any number of channels that have no equal on old radio. Sure, the hits channels get the cume from sat listeners but the variety of alternatives (and the surprise factor) is endless. That’s the difference that this story doesn’t consider. If Sirius dumped all the flavor channels and just kept the big cum’ers, I’d probably unsubscribe.

  17. Deborah
    Deborah says:

    Interesting. I agree. The fun of Sirius are the continual small surprises: Spa 73, Iceberg 94 and the music coming out of Canada, and Coffee House 30. Certainly, the big star–Howard Stern–is what brought me to Sirius; however, if Stern retires, I will continue to discover new channels.
    New channels come and go–i.e., Grateful Dead and Springsteen. They seem to coincide with popularity trends.

  18. Brian William
    Brian William says:

    I’m wondering if my experience growing up was unique or if radio really has changed over the years. All throughout the ’80s, I listened to one and only one radio station, KXYQ (Q105) Portland, Oregon. They bragged that they broadcast from the “big pink tower of power” (the US Bank building). They were a pretty standard CHR station, but they would play anything that was popular, regardless of genre. Debbie Gibson’s “Electric Youth” would be included next to “Keep Your Hands to Yourself” by the Georgia Satellites. They played the goofiest soft pop like George Michael and Chicago as well as legitimate rockers like AC/DC, Def Leppard, and Guns ‘n’ Roses. And they’d regularly cross genre lines, playing those ridiculous duets that were popular for a time in the ’80s like “Tonight, I Celebrate My Love for You” and “Up Where We Belong” as well as Beastie Boys, Run DMC, and Salt-n-Pepa. The exposure I’ve had to Jack stations (and clones) seems even more limited than what I remember on the radio 20 plus years ago, yet they’re suppose to be revolutionary in the variety of music they play. I’m wondering? Was this just one PD at one radio station in one city, or was there really more variety on Top 40 radio back in the 1980’s?

  19. Scott
    Scott says:

    Nice detailed analysis, however I think you’re missing the point, though you allude to it:
    Satellite offers both the overplayed AND the obscure. The listener can choose. Of COURSE Top Tracks is going to be similar to snore-ville FM – it is the “top tracks.” But just a few channels down is Deep Tracks.
    And let’s not even talk about the difference between, say, WCBSFM or KRTH, and XM 50’s on 5 or 60s on 6. Absolutely no comparison. Satellite blows them completely out of the water.
    Now if they could just get the sound quality on satellite to be something better than complete crap, it would be a perfect world.


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